Lucy:   “Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable” (Leviticus 18:22) and “If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.” (Leviticus 20:13) … God views homosexuality as “detestable” … Homosexuality is a sexual sin, and can therefore be considered sexual immorality. I do not in any way advocate hating homosexuals (or anyone, for that matter).  And yet we must not accept practices opposed to God’s will just because society has deemed them to be acceptable.  I pray that with a lot of love from Christians, and through the power of the Holy Spirit, God will change the hearts of homosexuals to turn away from their “detestable” way, and turn towards God instead.

 

Scaughdt:   Hmmm … Lucy, do you have similar view regarding the literally 75 other behaviors forbidden by the book of Leviticus?  If not, why are you cherry-picking the only two anti-gay verses in the entire Old Testament and focusing on them alone?  … And if so, why are you & yours not posting about and railing against these other equally “detestable” (and far more prevalent) sins as well?

P.S.   If homosexuality is a sin, why did God make it a biological inclination from childhood – not only for roughly one out of every ten humans, but for a significant percentage of over fifteen hundred other animal species as well? … In other words, if homosexuality is a sin, why in the world would God literally create that sin?!?

P.P.S.  How do Jesus’ words of Matthew 7:1-2 fit in here? (“Do not judge, so that you may not be judged.  For with the judgment you make you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get.”)

Bart:  Question:  Do you, Vanessa or Scaughdt, believe that God will bless a gay marriage? (I won’t be expecting a simple yes or no answer from either of you.)

 

Scaughdt:   If God is a God of perfect Love (Matthew 5:48) then of course He would! … Indeed, how could He not bless anything done sincerely from a place of unconditional Love?!?!?  (Plus, there’s the pretty logical FACT that God made homosexuals gay in the first place, so how could He ever be justified in punishing one of His own doings?)

 

The real question here, my Friend, is not whether we support gay marriage, but rather why you are so determined to read the Bible from a place of hatred &/or intolerance, instead of from a place of Love & Acceptance?

 

 

 

Bart:   “IF God is a God of unconditional Love”?  So a legal document is not necessary? And do you mean acceptance — or approval?  God did not make any of us the way we are.  God created two people.  The rest of us are here because of the choices of a MAN and a WOMAN … Do you believe two men can reproduce?  I read the Bible in spirit and not intelligence … Try it sometime.

 

Vanessa:   Bart, we aren’t talking about people who are gay needing a piece of paper. We are talking about why you wouldn’t go and listen to the word of God being offered from a gay preacher.  I’m very interested in hearing your answer – and Lucy’s answer as well.

 

Bart:   Answer my question first – the one that I have asked you a few times already: Do you believe God will bless a gay marriage?

 

Vanessa:   I believe that God will not punish gay people for being gay, that is correct.

 

Bart:   I take that as a YES?

 

Vanessa:   YES.

 

Bart:   Well I don’t.  So does that me anti-gay? or a bigot?   The legal paper comment was in response to Scaughdt’s “unconditional Love” reference … And no, I would not attend their church; I have my own — with only one member……The Holy Spirit.

 

Vanessa:   Fair enough … And yet the question remains:  Why would you refuse to listen to the Word of God spoken by a gay preacher somewhere else?

Scaughdt:  This picture somehow seems appropriate …

Bart:   How is it bigotry to CHOOSE?

 

Scaughdt:   It is not bigotry to choose, Bart … It is bigotry to JUDGE – especially when it is not your place to do that judging!

 

Bart:   Show me where I have judged the two men in the pic or anyone else … I asked a simple yes or no question, just like a lot of my other posts.  It seems like you have a problem with those two little words.

 

Scaughdt:   Bart, how about me giving you the chance to stand up and have the courage to explicitly state who you are and what you stand for – as opposed to tip-toeing around Facebook with thinly veiled attacks and vague innuendos, eh?

 

The bland “yes or no” & the hollow “hypothetical” are typical tactics used in any standard dysfunctional discussion … They don’t really require any measure of intimacy or honesty or courage to answer, and as such I personally am more a fan of fully open, “shout it from the rooftop” sharing … What do you say, my Friend?

… Shall we give flagrant honesty a go?

P.S.  Bart, I will admit that you have been much more open about your views in this particular conversation than in many of our past discussions, and I am very appreciative of that … After all, do we really want to spend our time answering profoundly important questions with words merely meek & vague?   Would it really mean anything for someone to look at your original post and whisper a mere “yes” or murmur a mere “no”?  Would it really allow anyone to address WHY they believe the way they do – and thereby possibly enter into a sincere discussion that could open their Hearts to a far greater Way of Loving & Living?  Of course not! … I think anybody can see that.  I mean, if you didn’t really want folks to open up and have the guts to deeply discuss this issue, then why did you post about it in the first place?

 

P.P.S.   To once again answer your questions (the same way that Jesus Christ himself would almost undoubtedly answer them as well):
*Would I go to a church to listen to a sermon by a homosexual pastor?  YES!

 

*Would any version of God who is worth worshiping bless a sincerely loving marriage between two people of the same gender?  Of course He would, though I will note for the record that that same God would frown equally upon all acts of marriage – be they straight or gay – because marriage contracts actually hinder the expression of Divine Love that the Father longs for us to enliven (see Matthew 19:12 & Matthew 22:30), but more on that another day …

 

P.P.S.S.   If a gay preacher were to stand up and start preaching “hellfire & brimstone” – or racism – or pro-war propaganda – or the eternal damnation of Buddhists (like Thich Nhat Hanh) – or the spiritual condemnation Hindus (like Gandhi), then I would gently stand and remind him or her that they are not to throw stumbling blocks of hatred, intolerance and bigotry upon the paths of the members of their congregation (see Matthew 18:6-7) – just like I would do if I were to hear any straight preacher saying the same … Jesus not only demands that we champion LOVE without exception, he demands that we do so flagrantly & openly & with resolute Courage, my dear Friend!!!!

Filed under: Burnishing Bigotry by Scaughdt