Scaughdt:   This query is actually a pretty intriguing one — I have heard Lucy & Bart both state that God does not damn gays to Hell, but rather that homosexuals choose to sin and therefore effectively choose their eternal damnation … Putting aside for the moment the problem any moral person must have with God punishing people for caving to the “sins” (in this case, homosexual attractions) that He instilled in them in the first place (see pages 78-80 &/or pages 110-115 herein for evidence thereof), and putting aside for the moment the fact – even if God didn’t make gays gay – that an eternity of torment in Hell for even 85 straight years of even constant gay lust is anything but a fair & just punishment (that it is anything but “reaping what you sow”), I was wondering the following:

 

Question #05:  If homosexuals do mistakenly choose to go to Hell, what happens
once they arrive there, realize their mistake, and then want to leave?

 

In other words – if gays do choose to go to Hell (by quite reasonably – albeit in this hypothetical quite incorrectly – assuming that no God could ever be so callous or so cruel as to send them there for a “sin” so minor), then what happens once they get to Hell and just as reasonably  choose to want to depart? …What happens when they scream up to the all-knowing God for mercy (who by His omniscient nature has no choice but to hear their plaintive cries)? … What happens when they plead the quite reasonable defense that it was unfair for God to damn them for not adhering to a Bible that condemned their innate desires to love & cherish members of their same sex? … What happens when the heterosexual Christians already in Heaven remind God that many of the damned homosexuals (like Oliver Clyde Allen, the subject of this very conversation) had earnestly & steadfastly & devoutly dedicated their lives to worshiping Jesus Christ before they died? … What happens when they plead to God to have mercy on their quite honest mistake? … Will the all-powerful Heavenly Father reject those pleas & beggings and force homosexuals to remain in Hell forever; will He in effect imprison them in their torment for all eternity – or will He have mercy upon their Souls and allow them to come and be with Him in Heaven (a la the “father” mentioned by Jesus in the parable of the Prodigal Son – see Luke 15:11-32)?

Bart:   Scaughdt, the real question is a matter of practicing what we preach … Now if the gay in question or any pastor is preaching the whole truth then he has to be preaching against sin — and the issue here in this post is sexual sin.  I believe that all pastors should practice what they preach, and I think that we all should as well.  No one is going to send anyone to Hell — even God.  That is a choice that we will all make.  If being a homosexual condemns them to Hell then by rule of law we are all going.   We can choose to sin in any way, or we can choose to have the courage to turn away from sin by being born again in Spirit.

 

P.S.  Heaven and Hell will be separate, and there will be no connection between the two … As Jesus said, “Depart from me; I never knew you.”

 

Scaughdt:   Bart, I already get all of that.  You have basically restated my question without answering it, so I will ask it again:  Since your version of God is all-knowing (and therefore most certainly will hear the screams for mercy from the damned) and since your version of God is all-powerful (and therefore most certainly could release homosexual sinners from their torment anytime and in any manner He chose to do so), will He grant their pleas for Mercy?   In other words – since gays choose to go to Hell, can they then choose to successfully petition your all-powerful & all-merciful God to leave Hell after they arrive there?

 

P.S.  There is one short story in the Scriptures that possibly (and only vaguely) implies that there is an uncrossable gap between Heaven & Hell (see Luke 16:14-31), and yet the verse from Jesus you quoted (Matthew 7:23) A) has absolutely nothing at all to do therewith … and B) actually refers more to you & yours than to homosexuals – seeing as how you & yours are the ones choosing to ignore Jesus’ commandments to be humble (see Matthew 18:3-4) and to be non-judgmentally Caring (see Matthew 18:21-22) & non-hypocritically Kind (see Matthew 7:1-5 + Matthew 23:25-26) to others – especially those not like you in belief or behavior (see Matthew 5:44-48 + Matthew 7:21-22).

P.S.S.  Bart, do you seriously believe that anyone (other than an extreme masochist) would ever choose to burn in Hell forever?   I mean, I admit that I myelf would do so in order to help others who are suffering there, but other than that quite rare exception your statement makes no sense whatsoever … It’s like you are saying that a child chooses to be whipped brutally a thousand times whenever he talks back to his parents, which – as we all know – is either a punishment that is fundamentally evil or a consequence that is fundamentally ridiculous.  Of course no sane person (neither child nor adult) ever chooses to suffer excessively …

 

Yes, we might choose to break the rules, and yet it is the parent & the parent alone who then chooses to administer the brutal lashes thereafter, and thus it is the parent (in this case, God) and the parent alone who is responsible for doing so.

 

So, my dear Friend, seeing as how true Divine Love either exists in unconditional perfection or not at all – and seeing as how God is either a God of perfect Love, unconditional Mercy & absolute Forgiveness or He isn’t at all (see Matthew 5:48 + Luke 6:36 + Matthew 18:21-22), why are you choosing to abide in & worship the latter in each case – especially when Jesus himself so clearly said not to do so?

Filed under: Burnishing Bigotry by Scaughdt